How would you answer this question posed by Piers Morgan to Joel Osteen??
"But, I mean, shouldn’t the scripture be dragged kicking and screaming into the modern age. I mean, we were talking before the break about the issue about eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, not everything in the scriptures, really, is, in my view, conducive to modern life. I mean, like everything else, doesn’t it have to move with the times and isn’t it down again to people like you to interpret it in a way that evolves when you’re known as a very progressive preacher? "
Here's how Joel Osteen answered:
Piers Morgan again asked the same question to Pastor Mark Driscoll in March 2012:
MORGAN: Do too many people in the world of religion take it too seriously?
Is that part of the problem?
DRISCOLL: I think we should take Jesus seriously. We should take the Bible seriously. We probably shouldn’t take ourselves nearly as seriously. And that’s how I approach it.
MORGAN: Do you think you’re a tolerant kind of guy?
DRISCOLL: I love people very much and it’s — it’s –
MORGAN: That’s not the same thing.
DRISCOLL: Well, it’s — how do you disagree, sometimes, with people that you love?
That’s a very difficult issue for everybody, but for a pastor in particular, because –
MORGAN: But do you preach tolerance?
DRISCOLL: I’ve preached that we should love our neighbor, that we should accept –
MORGAN: But tolerance — tolerance in particular.
DRISCOLL: Why — you keep hammering it. What — what do you mean by tolerance?
MORGAN: Tolerating people who may have a lifestyle or a belief that you don’t agree with.
DRISCOLL: Yes, we have to. And that’s — when Jesus says love your neighbor, you know, he knows you’re not going to agree with all your neighbors, but he wants you to love them, to seek good for them, to care for them.
(CROSSTALK)
MORGAN: What did you make of the whole Kirk Cameron scandal, as it’s become, where he, you know, for 15 minutes here, he sat here espousing what I think he thought were perfectly normal Christian views. But he did it in a way that people saw was really very bigoted toward gays.
What did you think of that?
DRISCOLL: To be honest with you, I haven’t seen the whole thing. So I –
MORGAN: But you know what he said.
DRISCOLL: I saw some of the Twitter and, you know, some of the blogging and stuff. But that’s not always the best snapshot of the full context of the conversation. So I — I don’t know, to be honest with you.
MORGAN: Well, OK.
I mean do you think that homosexuality is a sin?
DRISCOLL: The Bible says, on six occasions –
MORGAN: What do you think?
DRISCOLL: I believe that all sex outside of heterosexual marriage. So, me as a teenager having sex before marriage, that was wrong. People looking at pornography is wrong. Single people having sex is wrong. Homosexuality is wrong.
So there’s a long list of things that the Bible says is wrong.
MORGAN: Right. But given eighty states in America now have legalized gay marriage, that’s fine, right? DRISCOLL: Well, no. I mean it’s amazing, because there were anti-sodomy laws and anti-fornication laws on the books just a few generations ago.
MORGAN: I mean, no one’s taking much account of the anti- fornication laws, are they?
DRISCOLL: Yes, I do — I don’t want to be the one to enforce those laws or go around –
MORGAN: Right. But my point is, it — you know, the Bible is what it is. It’s an extraordinary book –
DRISCOLL: Right.
MORGAN: — which has governed people’s moral and personal behavior now for –
DRISCOLL: Thousands of years.
MORGAN: — thousands of years.
However, like everything in life, shouldn’t it be dragged kicking and screaming into each modern era, and be adapted, like the American Constitution.
DRISCOLL: Yes.
MORGAN: Because, you know, my — my view about this is — is not that I don’t respect Christians or Catholics or whoever who — who absolutely swear by every word in here. It’s just that it’s — I just don’t believe anyone who is genuinely Christian should be spouting bigoted opinions about sections of the community for their sexuality.
DRISCOLL: Well, I think when it comes to the Bible, you’ve got three options. Take it, I believe what it says. Leave it, I don’t believe what it says. Or change it –
MORGAN: Or adapt — or adapt the wording –
DRISCOLL: Which would be the changing it.
MORGAN: — for a modern era.
DRISCOLL: That would be the changing of it. That’s exactly what, for example, Thomas Jefferson did. He literally sat down in the White House with scissors and cut the parts out that he didn’t feel should be in there.
MORGAN: But given that more Americans now believe that gay marriage is acceptable than don’t in this country –
DRISCOLL: Well, we don’t know, because it has — it hasn’t been voted on.
So...should it? Should we take the scriptures and change the commandments to meet our ever changing opinons on what is and what is not sin?
Let's take a look at how God's Word might respond. First, from the Old Testament we find in Malachi 3:6-7:
6 “I am the Lord, and I do not change. That is why you descendants of Jacob are not already destroyed. 7 Ever since the days of your ancestors, you have scorned my decrees and failed to obey them. Now return to me, and I will return to you,” says the Lord of Heaven’s Armies.
Hmm... not much wiggle room
What does Jesus say? From Matthew 5:17-19:
17 “Don’t misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to accomplish their purpose. 18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not even the smallest detail of God’s law will disappear until its purpose is achieved. 19 So if you ignore the least commandment and teach others to do the same, you will be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But anyone who obeys God’s laws and teaches them will be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven.
Hmm....Heaven and Earth still seem to be in tact...
And regarding Jesus, the author of Hebrews writes in 13:8-9:
8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. 9 So do not be attracted by strange, new ideas. Your strength comes from God’s grace, not from rules about food, which don’t help those who follow them.
Hmm....Could the scribes of his day be considered on par with journalists (like Piers) of today?
Then the Pharisees and some of the scribes came together to Him, having come from Jerusalem. 2 Now when they saw some of His disciples eat bread with defiled, that is, with unwashed hands, they found fault. 3 For the Pharisees and all the Jews do not eat unless they wash their hands in a special way, holding the tradition of the elders. 4 When they come from the marketplace, they do not eat unless they wash. And there are many other things which they have received and hold, like the washing of cups, pitchers, copper vessels, and couches.
5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked Him, “Why do Your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashed hands?”
6 He answered and said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
7 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men —the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do.”
9 He said to them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition.
So when we legalize such things as gay marriage, when the Bible states...
22 “Do not practice homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin.
23 “A man must not defile himself by having sex with an animal. And a woman must not offer herself to a male animal to have intercourse with it. This is a perverse act. (Leviticus 18:22-23)
And
13 “If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:13)
Or
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 9 Don’t you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality, 10 or are thieves, or greedy people, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat people—none of these will inherit the Kingdom of God.
Are we no different from those, who, in Jesus' time, insisted that their rules and interpretations were to be elevated above the commandments of God?
BAM!! A wall immediately comes up and those with a differenting opinion fly off the handle labeling those who believe that the homosexual lifestyle is sin, are haters and intolerant.
Let's be honest here. No one likes to be told that they are sinners or are sinning. But does the Bible say that only homosexual sex is sin? Of course not. Verse 9 above paints a very broad brush when it comes to "sexual sin" and, as Pastor Driscoll correctly stated, any sex, outside of marriage is sin.
But let's pick up from the last verse we were reading above from 1 Corinthians 6, and read on, starting in verse 11:
11 Some of you were once like that. But you were cleansed; you were made holy; you were made right with God by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
"Hang on... are you saying that you can stop being gay? That's a lie! I was born that way. God can't judge me, he made me that way."
Ouch...be careful when you blame God. I would dare say that a strong number of the gay population were molested in their lifetime and then sold a lie that they were now gay. Even if they weren't, and they "discovered" that they were sexually attracked to the same sex, it is no different from me, a heterosexual male, when I look upon another woman, other than my wife, with lust in my heart. It is sin. If I lust with pornography...sin. If I divorce due to irreconcilable circumstances...sin. Prostitution...sin. Beastiality...sin.
But did you read verse 11? We can be cleansed of our sin. Does that mean I will never again lust for an attractive woman? No. As long as I am in this body of flesh, there will be a continuous battle between the Spirit and my flesh (see Romans 7:14 - 8:4).
Let's pick up again in verse 12...
12 You say, “I am allowed to do anything”—but not everything is good for you. And even though “I am allowed to do anything,” I must not become a slave to anything. 13 You say, “Food was made for the stomach, and the stomach for food.” (This is true, though someday God will do away with both of them.) But you can’t say that our bodies were made for sexual immorality. They were made for the Lord, and the Lord cares about our bodies. 14 And God will raise us from the dead by his power, just as he raised our Lord from the dead.
15 Don’t you realize that your bodies are actually parts of Christ? Should a man take his body, which is part of Christ, and join it to a prostitute? Never! 16 And don’t you realize that if a man joins himself to a prostitute, he becomes one body with her? For the Scriptures say, “The two are united into one.” 17 But the person who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with him.
18 Run from sexual sin! No other sin so clearly affects the body as this one does. For sexual immorality is a sin against your own body. 19 Don’t you realize that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, who lives in you and was given to you by God? You do not belong to yourself, 20 for God bought you with a high price. So you must honor God with your body.
So you see, when we begin to justify our sin by questioning it's applicability in today's day and age, we catapult ourselves right back to the Garden of Eden when ,The Father of Lies (aka. Satan/Devil), sold us, lock, stock and barrel, on the show stopper:
"Did God really say?" (Genesis 3:1)
You still want to label me a "hater?" That's ok. But would you label Jesus as a hater? The Gospel of John (chapter 8) tells of a woman caught in the "act of adultery"... a sexual sin. Let's see how he responds...
2 Now early in the morning He came again into the temple, and all the people came to Him; and He sat down and taught them. 3 Then the scribes and Pharisees brought to Him a woman caught in adultery. And when they had set her in the midst, 4 they said to Him, “Teacher, this woman was caught in adultery, in the very act. 5 Now Moses, in the law, commanded us that such should be stoned. But what do You say?” 6 This they said, testing Him, that they might have something of which to accuse Him. But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger, as though He did not hear.
7 So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.” 8 And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. 9 Then those who heard it, being convicted by their conscience, went out one by one, beginning with the oldest even to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10 When Jesus had raised Himself up and saw no one but the woman, He said to her, “Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you?”
11 She said, “No one, Lord.”
And Jesus said to her, “Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more.”
Hmm...that's how I think most true followers of Christ would react. We don't judge the individual, as we ourselves are sinners, but, at the same time, we don't stop calling it sin. That would be as unloving as not telling someone that they were about to drink poison or do something else that has a serious consequence.
Consequence? That's what the Apostle Paul told the church in Rome in Romans chapter 1:
God’s Anger at Sin
18 But God shows his anger from heaven against all sinful, wicked people who suppress the truth by their wickedness. 19 They know the truth about God because he has made it obvious to them. 20 For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God.
21 Yes, they knew God, but they wouldn’t worship him as God or even give him thanks. And they began to think up foolish ideas of what God was like. As a result, their minds became dark and confused. 22 Claiming to be wise, they instead became utter fools.
23 And instead of worshiping the glorious, ever-living God, they worshiped idols made to look like mere people and birds and animals and reptiles.
24 So God abandoned them to do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other’s bodies. 25 They traded the truth about God for a lie. So they worshiped and served the things God created instead of the Creator himself, who is worthy of eternal praise! Amen. 26 That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. 27 And the men, instead of having normal sexual relations with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men, and as a result of this sin, they suffered within themselves the penalty they deserved.
My conclusion over the whole matter... we need to bring the scriptures, "Kicking and Screaming into the modern age" IN TACT.
For as Jesus says in John 14:15 - 5 “If you love me, obey my commandments.
24 Then Jesus said to His disciples, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me. 25 For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it. 26 For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul? 27 For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works. (Matthew 16:24-27)
